Key insights from the conversation

Personal journeys and growth

• Hannah’s transition from pursuing a degree in fine arts to embracing graphic design and eventually leaving her job to fully commit to her project.

• Importance of community: the pivotal role of community and networking in fostering creative growth, engaging with like-minded individuals.

Creative process, challenges and inspiration

• The importance of experimentation, how trying new things and starting projects, have led to significant personal and professional growth.

• The common struggle of finding a balance between work and personal life, especially when passionate about one's work.

• How attending in-person events enriched the sense of belonging and provided new perspectives and opportunities for growth.

Professional and personal insights

• The critical role of community feedback and support in the creative and professional journey.

• How creating and sharing work has led to personal growth, confidence, and the realization of the impact our work can have on others.

Advice for creatives

• An encouragement to share our work and engage with communities, emphasizing the importance of visibility and interaction.

• A call to action for listeners to start sharing their work, highlighting the importance of being authentic and true to oneself in the creative process.

Full transcript

Here is the entire conversation transcript, edited for clarity and conciseness. Here's also the link to the conversation on LinkedIn Live.

Roberto

Hello!

Hannah

Hey, I'm so happy to be here.

Roberto

It's great to see you. I'm super excited to do this live today because we have known each other for almost two years. I was checking earlier and saw that our first message here on LinkedIn was on the 12th of April, 2022. And I see that two years have passed. We met virtually yesterday for the first time, and today, we are doing this live, so I'm super excited.

And also, I want to thank you, Hannah, for your commitment to doing this. You had a tight deadline; nonetheless, here you are, 100% present to do this live. So thank you, first of all, it's a pleasure.

You're one of the people I admire the most in this community. I want to read a line from your bio: I hope to inspire you to develop resilience and mental strength, take action towards your goals, and leverage visual communication's power. And I can say that all three are true, at least for me.

I had countless inspirations from what you do, the visuals, and the interaction. So this is an absolute pleasure. But before I go on too much, I would love you to tell yourself a little bit about yourself and what you want the people who are connected here to know about you before we go into the conversation.

Hannah

Thank you so much for that kind intro. Indeed, there's so much going on in my life right now, but it's a priority to be here, and it's just extraordinary to be able to be here today. And the feelings are entirely mutual. I have so much admiration for you and what you're doing. And I can't believe our first proper connection is now on this live, which is, it's just so fun. This is just a normal conversation between us.

It's not contrived, it's candid. And I think that you know, for part of what I do and what my message that I want to share is just showing up as a human, just showing up and just being yourself. Because when we are ourselves, good things happen basically, and that's what's come for me.

I did fine art as a degree. So I've always been this creative, always working on some creative project. Then the pandemic hit, and I found myself doing some graphic design and painting commissions, like oil paintings, like big ones. Before that design job, I took a course about data visualization, and that was mid 2021, but I paused everything and, you know, said yes to this design job. It was a small job, and after a while, I was ready to move on. I started a project for my portfolio to help me remember what I read because I'm always doodling in the margins of my non-fiction books. And yeah, that's how it all started. It was a project that made sense in many aspects for me, personally and professionally.

And then, you know, fast forward, what was it about six months? I then was getting messages from people requesting to work with me. And so, within six months, I left my job to pursue this full-time. We are two years in, over a year self-employed, but two years in full to the journey; I properly kick-started Quoted Visually at the end of 2021. It was my annual leave, and I had a couple of days left, and I thought, you know what? I'm going to invest back into this, and it paid off.

Roberto

So it's a coincidence we met at the very beginning of your bet on this, on yourself. And it's super interesting because I hear that you started this as something that has meaning to yourself, to remember why you read. And what was the feeling at the moment? And now, how can you connect with this feeling after two years because it's clear that you still live this? What's the secret?

Hannah

What's the feeling? I can remember being in the kitchen with my mum, and I can remember telling her, I've got this project; it makes sense, you know, on all these different levels. And I'm so glad I pursued it because I could have been overthinking things, but on that day, I just went ahead and started. I did a post, and I put it out, and it felt amazing because it didn't take long to gain some traction. All of you were amazing people in the community. Janis, among others, I followed everyone he was following. I was a bit tight with my finances at the time. I didn't realize what kind of investing in yourself could do and could bring. So, I was determined to learn this on my own.

And it still feels amazing to have something on your sketchbook and then to put it out and then get messages from people saying that it's impacted them and helped them, that these thoughts that we have do matter, and there is value in what we're saying. You have to believe it, and what happens is just remarkable.

Roberto

It also looks like what you put out when you say, I just shared it, then you get more of that. People who find it attractive will connect, say something, or share their views. And this is also what happened; remember our first interaction, where you shared one visual, and then I said, oh, I like this, Hannah; I did this one inspired by yours.

What's the role of communities and, in general, this interaction in your creative practice?

Hannah

Well, that's such a good question because, after hearing your process, I see that you're very organized with how you approach things, whereas mine is entirely different.

I didn't understand the value of a community two years ago. I didn't understand what it meant to be in a creative space. Well, I did because I'd done a fine arts degree. I was used to working in a studio. So, I didn't take it for granted, but there's something so special about being surrounded by other people on a similar mission. I didn't grow this following on Instagram on my own. It was connecting with people like Roberto, or we've got PJ or Michael from Wisdom Made Easy. We've done it together.

And so it looks like it's a solo pursuit. That's what I would have imagined going from any other time. You start a project; it's all about you, but it's not. It's about the people you're connected with and going on that journey with them. And so, without community, there is nothing. And I hope anybody starting their visual journey or similar creative project can connect with like-minded people, too.

Roberto

It reminds me of one thing I read from Janis that you mentioned, and I want to give full credit to him.

There are, let's say, starting, middle, huge, and super big creators with millions of followers, and there is always space for more because, first of all, creating takes work, and you have to like it. So the first thing is that you have to do it for quite a long time; it's not something you can do in two months. Then, time goes on, and the results will come.

At the same time, when you start, people are always one year and six months ahead of you in the learning curve. When these people grow, they outgrow their role and lose their relatability because you cannot connect, share, and have the same level of interaction when you have 10,000 connections as when you have 100,000 or 1 million; it's impossible. It's not humanly impossible. So there is always this space and this movement. And your encouragement is to start, find your group, share, and have fun. And from there, you grow and learn together, which is beautiful.

And it's not like doing it all on your own. Of course, you have to do your work. The interaction with these people, the feedback, and the support we can give each other are crucial. And it's also part of the fun because you're not standing in front of the screen for so many hours. The human touch is super important. And remember one thing that you said about the live and in-person events, and you connected this to the community.

Can you talk a little bit about this? I'm super curious about your experience.

Hannah

So obviously, I had left my job, and I've been doing this alone. I felt very much like this solo person posting on the internet. Sometimes, you feel alone. You have your friends around you, but then they've got their jobs, or they've got their commitments, and you can't just rely on your creator friends like you have to hold your own.

So, I just thought, okay, what could I do? And I went to some events. I went to a few in London, which has completely changed my outlook. I felt very isolated, and you go through that period, everyone says when you start your business or whatever new project before you have those people in person. Then, going to those events made me feel like I belonged in that room, which was immensely powerful.

I felt like I belonged and felt confident in that space. And then, when I had all these different people around me who were also small business owners, it gave me permission to keep pushing and made me feel more like myself.

So, I no longer feel isolated because I can attend these in-person events in London. It fuels you so much to the point that you only need to go to a couple, I find, and you're just lit up with this, you know, this energy of being in a high-density environment where there are lots of entrepreneurs and you push each other forward even more. But it just can't happen if you're all behind a screen at home. You've got to be in front of different faces.

Roberto

It's like overcoming the, let's say, discomfort of leaving your home. And you even mentioned that a trip to London is one day for you. So, it's a massive investment of your time to be mindful and intentional. I'm going there, I'm going to take out the most, I'm going to show up.

I remember when you shared the event with Shahil Bloom. And he said: I'm going to stay and meet everyone who stays there. How was that? And I'm very curious also because you were there.

Hannah

I was so lucky. I have so much respect for Sahil and Ali. It was cold. The venue kicked us out, and we stayed outside for three hours. I was shivering. It was cold. But we would take a moment to chat to both of them. And yeah, just so much respect. When you surround yourself with people doing crazy stuff, you become more inspired and don't have to spend hours with them. Even being near somebody like Sahil Bloom can put everything else in perspective. So, with all the other content he puts out, I now have this new understanding and appreciation.

Sometimes, there's stuff that goes out there that's beneficial for us to watch, read, or listen to, but we can't access it. And maybe meeting that person in real life is that thing that gives you the key to feel like you can be open enough to receive the information. It's interesting what happens, but I am just so excited about what other events could occur in the future.

Roberto

It sounds like a gear-up that allows you to put in action because you can stay and consume, listen to podcasts, do things, and read. But then, if you don't go out and practice what you read or learn, it's usually because it stays here. So you go out, you try, and you experiment. And this is also something that I love about what you do because I see that you are constantly experimenting, doing things, doing things, doing a lot of things.

I want to ask you, Hannah, what's the experiment or the project that now excites you the most?

Hannah

That's an easy one. It's my course. That's an experiment. I put my neck on the line there. I spent nearly three months of my life working on something.

I had a situation where one of my clients needed to stop working with me. They were busy. And it was like a month before I launched, and I realized it amped up the pressure. It was a gift because I realized I needed to make this work and put that pressure on myself to get it out.

So it's out now, and the whole process of making the course itself, you know, that experiment right when I started, I didn't think I could do it like I honestly didn't know I could. Then I just kept doing it. I just kept doing what I could each day, and you know, you convince yourself that you can do it because I believe in my ability to produce something outstanding. After all, I know how picky I am with detail. I know I know I won't let something out there if I'm not happy with it. So you trust it. You keep working on it. And that happened to me with the experiment of making this course.

Then, I experimented with sharing the journey. So I made some more posts on LinkedIn, and you can't go wrong because you're just being open and honest, and everybody is there on the journey with you. You give people a chance to get to know you. And so I think that's my biggest experiment.

Roberto

What's the most surprising thing that you learn during this process? What has surprised you over these three months?

Hannah

I've put myself through an intense period. And the biggest lesson for me has been this. I see it when I'm with my boyfriend, but this relentless approach to problem-solving. When you're making your course, you've got to think of how I will market this thing. Oh, I need a landing page. Oh, how do I? Oh, I need to do that in Shopify. Okay, because that's where my website is. Where do I host it? Oh, how much do I charge? And so all these questions come up, and I've learned from that whole process that I know I will figure something out.

So it's the faith that you'll find a way through whatever you tackle next.

So it's like, realizing that this relentless approach is what makes you you, and I've seen that in myself, so I've made myself very proud, like that I've been able to, you know, put it out. It wasn't easy.

Roberto

Yeah, and I also hear that you own your own business when you are on your own.

You figure it out, or you don't do it. When you're on your own, it's all on you. As you said, you must wear many hats and figure it out. You cannot say, okay, someone will solve it for me. No. You will have to figure it out. At the same time, you learn. You learn a lot through this process.

Super interesting. Super interesting.

I'm curious now that we're talking about learning: what's the thing that you struggle the most at this moment?

Hannah

I think it's balance. If you talk about work-life balance, I think that is a controversial topic because lots of people, you know, I don't think that there should be separation. Still, I struggle with logging off and switching off because when my brain is operating at its best and I've got fantastic ideas, I go to bed and write down everything amazing in my notebook. All my ideas are just coming out.

But when the ideas are great, the sleep's terrible. So it's like, there are seasons for everything. Sometimes, you'll come up with loads and loads of ideas, and sometimes, you're just leaning into life a bit more.

So yeah, it's finding that time to make space to do other things because the weekends are unlike when I had my nine-to-five. The weekends aren't normal. I can't easily take out the whole weekend. There's stuff that I need to do on my computer because of the love of it, but also the time; you have to be strict with your time.

So yeah, how do you handle that being strict with your time? Because there's a lot that you're trying to do. Being a creator isn't like, you know, quick, and it's not easy. There's always something to do.

Roberto

I also hear that you could go on and on when you love something and like to do it. And then you have, as you say, I have to switch. I want to switch. And I admit that this is also a struggle, or at least it was more initially for me.

I don't believe in balance, and I love the idea of work-life integration. So when you are, of course, there are moments that you are 100% doing the job and moments that you are 100% doing life, let's say, or family or whatever, but we cannot draw a red line because it will I think it will put too much stress.

If something happens, for example, something in my family occurs during my workday, of course I will do it. I have two kids; they call from the kindergarten or whatever, and I will attend them. At the same time, there is something with work or other things in the evening or even on the weekends. There's no problem if I decide and am intentional about this. And it's more like thinking of doing the work and achieving the result than not separating one hour here and one hour there. It's a struggle in the beginning because you have to be very disciplined, as you said, and you could go on and on and on and on.

My trick to avoiding this constant thinking at bedtime is to leave at least one hour and a half before bed. So I don't have anything in my mind. So I leave the mobile sleeping in a closet. I say this because it's like charging. If I want to take photos, for example, which is a huge distraction, I take the mobile to take a picture of my kids, and then I watch an email, whatever, and I'm lost. So I use my wife's mobile, and I don't have anything to look at my wife's mobile. So this is a way to avoid it. And yes, at the same time, it's a struggle.

My challenge is FOMO because we have so many exciting things. So many opportunities. Today, more than ever, you can meet wonderful people like you on the internet. You could go on with this all day, and it's infinite because the more doors you open, the more doors appear. And I remember a visual from you, which, by the way, I did also one inspired, which was about FOMO and JOMO. You have to close the doors. The problem is not finding the door; it's closing doors.

Hannah

It's so smart. And you then have the joy of missing out because you are content with the choices that you've made. And you're so sure of yourself that you're happy you're not going to do everything.

Roberto

When you say no to an opportunity, it's not that you don't like this opportunity. Instead, it's because there are probably infinite opportunities. You're making a choice; it's not that I don't like it, but it's not my priority. I also receive this answer when I ask someone something, and they say, no, it's not my priority, and I respect this person because it's transparent; it is much better to say up front, I have no time for this. This is not the moment, but perhaps in the future, let's keep the door open or at least not close it with three locks. We closed it, but we can open it again. I closed the door but didn't put concrete on it because of our priority changes. We change. I'm not the same person that I was two years ago. Don't burn the bridge.

Why should we always be the same person doing the same thing? We change, we put something, I say, I always say, I put the stuff in my backpack, it's still with me, and then maybe I will do something else.

Hannah

And I can see that change right in ourselves. I can see it in myself when last night I was thinking, okay, what can I put out? And I wanted to put something out that I've done before because you do what you can now. I was reading through my Instagram all the different posts I've done, and I looked at the stuff, and I thought, oh, I don't know if I would say that.

So, I look at the way that I've written. I can't even use the same caption that maybe I used a year ago because I look at it, and I think I could write that way better. It's such a fantastic feeling of just falling in love with writing as well through this whole process because writing is so central to these illustrations, but yeah, so much I could say on that it's just so much of a journey of personal growth. I cannot even believe how far I've come. I never expected it.

Roberto

I can also relate to this because when you say that you take back one of the things you wrote one year or two years ago, you say, oh, I will do it differently. I said the same, but maybe it's not that bad. It's me that I've changed. I have a different perspective and experience and will do it differently.

This is also an encouragement for all the people who doubt what people are going to think about: by the way, no one will remember.

If someone remembers something you shared one year ago, or even six months ago, I think it's because they liked it. So if they liked it, great. I usually listen to the song we put; I put it every time. I love this song. I would never be tired of this. Of course, if it's all the time, 24/7, that's too much.

But it's always good to take back the classics and the ideas, for example, Stoic ideas. Thousands of years ago, we had different interpretations of our experiences, and now we spin them repeatedly. So, it's also the beauty of iterating, seeing other people's ideas, and incorporating our comments from people. I always check my older posts to repurpose and to share what I like, and I sometimes see the comment and say: I like this comment; I will put it inside the next time.

Hannah

There's so much that could be done there. I don't tap into all that because it's just the time commitment. There's so much I could be inspired by. And I say this in my course: it's not that we have ever run out of ideas. It's just because if we're constantly learning, you're feeding your mind these new things, and you connect the dots, it just happens.

And one thing you were talking about. You're talking about the fear of missing out. I'll post about this, but one thing that has just happened recently with the project that I'm working on and working on with some other creators is a privilege. Still, I had the opportunity to negotiate over email.

So it's having the confidence to ask for what you feel you are worth in terms of, you know, from freelance, but also being willing not to get the project. So it's like, I'm okay if I don't get this, but I've put my cards on the table, which I'm happy with. And that is an empowered place to be. So this has happened recently, and it's just that you get a high out of it because, you know, who wouldn't?

Roberto

I also hear that you value yourself. It's not other people saying what your worth is, but you say, to work with me, this is my fare. You may take or leave it, but you are setting your value.

So this is the feeling of, okay, I know my work; at least I share in this openly, and this also takes courage because, as you said, you may lose the client, you may lose the opportunity, and at the same time, you cannot satisfy everyone. There will always be someone who doesn't like what you do and disagrees with the price, and that's fine; it doesn't change who you are.

But you have to be clear first. You must know who and what you are worth and then go into the negotiation.

Hannah

I have PJ to thank for that shout-out to PJ, but it was exceptional to get the chance to go in high. Not only does that benefit me, but it also benefits my friends. So your friends too. But yeah, it's just like an empowered place because when you start putting yourself out there, you move away from the scarcity mindset. And you realize that there's this abundance of possibility. And so on one opportunity, if you miss out, it won't be the end of the world.

It might be doing you a favor, and in the process of maybe negotiating and losing out in many instances, there's so much to be learned from that, and it's just having that self-respect to not, I mean, throw everything in to please somebody else's schedule.

Roberto

We could go on for hours. So why don't we check the chat

Harsh asks what the sources of inspiration are for your creativity.

We have infinite sources of inspiration. One of the critical things for me is to have the mindset of looking for something. There is an anecdote: I saw pregnant women everywhere when I was waiting for my kids. Because my mind was so focused on the idea that I would be a father, I would be a father, I saw strollers and kids everywhere. And it's the same world, but it's changed from one day to another.

This is similar to inspiration for creativity. When you start thinking that you are creative, everyone is innovative, and everyone can do visuals, everyone can draw and remember the famous Tim Urban gratification monkey. It's like just a sketch with the paint; everyone can do it, and it's so brilliant. The idea is that everyone can do it first and second.

Inspiration is everywhere. You can see a post, you can, as you said, you can see something from another creator, you can see something in the street. Once you have this mindset, I would suggest capturing and having a system for capturing. So you have so many ideas in your backlog that when you put yourself to, okay, I'm going to do this, you pick the thing that excites you the most at the moment, and then we'll be a joy. So it's not like, oh, I have to create this. You have so many things that you pick the most exciting now.

Hannah

Something that I noticed in creating my course is that I reflected on my process. There's not just writing the ideas down at the moment, but also storing them.

My process is different when I'm writing something down. I might write it down on just a random piece of paper that I have here in front of me, but when I'm storing it, I've concluded that I do not like digital stuff for storing ideas. It needs to be a piece of paper; it needs to be in front of me.

Sometimes, you create an idea, and then the other ones and the other pages next to it, you won't make it for months or something. So I've got a folder. I've got an A5 folder.

So, for storing the ideas, every idea has a bit of paper. And that's been my process of ensuring you always have an idea to create. You can flick through this tangible folder and feel the excitement; then, you will have something in front of you, in front of your computer, while you create. I think it's essential to the tangible aspect.

Roberto

I also hear that there is no one way each of us has to find our own thing that likes and excites them. So I would suggest experiment and see what works for you.

Hannah

Exactly. And have multiple capturing channels so that if you're on a walk or driving, there's an option to do some audio capture.

Roberto

I can see a question for both. I was thinking yesterday about the concept of Ikigai. Do you feel that you've reached this point in your career by pursuing your goal of becoming a visual creator? If not, what are the next steps?

Hannah

We change as we grow. So it's not like a fixed; I have not found what I must do for the rest of my life. And I think the benefit of connecting with friends in the community, as we said yesterday, is that we're different ages. And that's the beauty of connecting with people worldwide through creating visuals that you get these different mentors. And this is something that PJ always says to me is that like it's just what you have different seasons of our life, and so you don't have to think about the solution right now for like for the future you need you know think about what works and then it will adapt and evolve with you.

Roberto

There is a book called The Portfolio Life, which tells you exactly something connected with what you said: that we keep getting experience, we change, but at the same time, we accumulate all these things. So we have this kind of human Venn diagram that we add one thing and then another one and then another one, and this combination is unique to us.

And maybe this will be our job, maybe not, but then you keep adding, you keep adding. And as long as you're having fun, learning, and enjoying it, that's fine. And it's not a fixed destination.

I would also add that there is a concept in my coaching: co-active coaching, which is called the life purpose. And, of course, there are many ways to define the purpose. One idea I like is the question of your gift to the world. So, this is not something tangible. It's something more like, what's your gift? And for me, for example, my definition would be that I'm the energy that connects with you and multiplies your impact. This is how I define it. And then you say, how do you translate it? I don't know, whatever, in many ways, doing this live, for example, doing this one, doing, participating in community or the work I do with my family, whatever. And I think this can be something more stable. Around this, you can pick the things that give you energy and are aligned with your values.

Hannah

I've been trying to pick apart that as well. I'd say it's connecting, bringing people together. I didn't realize my illustrations have this, and this is something that happened, you know, and then I look back, they're all very positive. I have this underlying theme of wanting to uplift and something about being a light and shining a light. There's something in that analogy for me that I connect with for my purpose. And I think that for all of this, all I feel is that I've just had the opportunity or created the opportunity to put myself out there. And it doesn't matter if only one person found it helpful. It's just that you have that inner peace that you have given, that you've contributed, that you have what you had to offer, that you know you never know what could happen tomorrow. You know, as you see the backdrop of what's gone on in my personal life.

It's just like having that courage to put yourself out there and not feeling like you need permission from somebody else, even if, again, you're putting yourself out there. You feel like you're too much, you're not, you're probably not doing enough, and that's one of the strong messages I want to share. Just don't overthink it. Please put yourself out there if you've got something to offer; people want to hear about it.

What's something that you have learned recently, Roberto? What's something that has come to your mind?

Roberto

The most exciting thing I learned in one year and a half was the consequence of my coaching training. This is something that I believe is not taught in school yet in terms of having a conversation, knowing how to ask questions, and listening. Wow, that's not coaching skill; that's human skill. So, we are constantly in person or virtually interacting with people.

Coaching gave me a different perspective on being curious about this other person on the other side.

Not wanting, for example, to solve the problem. Maybe just asking what's bothering you, what's happening, what inspires you, or what you don't like. And I saw that I'm always surprised by what comes out. And so this is the most exciting thing that I think changed my mind. Also, I see my work and family interactions when I go into a meeting or talk with a person, and first of all, I think, okay, I will be open to seeing what I can be surprised about from this person. And then, as we said in the beginning about creativity, when I think about this, I see this.

I say, wow, and it's so easy, but at the same time, we don't do it enough. And, of course, I'm not saying that I'm perfect. I still go into some action-oriented meetings, and then I don't care about the person. I say, oops, I should have done differently. But then, are you aware of how you interact with the person? Is this person being seen?

Hannah

Yeah, I think having that open mind is something that I also spoke about when going to those in-person events. It's like; it's really easy to sign up for an event and on the day, just to be a bit silly about it and say, oh, I'm not sure if I want to go, I'm tired, I've got this going on. And the message is the same. It's to show up anyway because you don't know what could come. And if you have an open mind, you go up to strangers, whatever you feel comfortable doing. Anything can come from that, but if you're closed off and you're not there listening to, in your case, listening and making sure the person you're coaching feels heard, you know, it's this other layer of context, which is easy to forget about, but the self-awareness is essential.

Roberto

Absolutely. Yeah, and there is one more thing that comes to my mind when you say this, that it's like a question that my coach posed to me when we were in the session, which was whatever the context, the question is, how do you want people to remember you?

Do you want this person to remember you as an angry person, as someone who didn't care, or who just did the bare minimum or whatever, or dismissive?

Or do you want to be this person that people remember? Oh, when I saw Hannah, I always had a smile. And even if, whatever, imagine whatever is the situation, and I remember, okay, what's the impact that I want to have on these people, on this person? And this helps me a lot. Because you don't do it for them, you do it for yourself. It's very, in a way, selfish because I will do it for myself because I want to be this person.

I want to be remembered, not as dismissive and angry. I want to be the person remembered as open, curious, and energizing, whatever. And so if I want that, I have to do something. As you said, attend the event, show up, and overcome the initial discomfort.

Hannah

Yes, and you don't need an agenda. I thought I needed to have a plan. I felt I needed something that I was going to get out of these events. But you go without an agenda, and when you have an open mind, it's just that is the strategy, and it's not what can I ask from these people that I'm meeting who, you know, if you happen to meet some speakers, you know, the question might be, what do I ask them?

How do you want them to feel? So, how can you open the door for this connection rather than trying to get something from it? To, you know, you never know what can happen if you've connected with that person in a few weeks, months, or years. You might be reaching out to each other, and there might be some exciting projects, but you have to show your face and be there so they know about you.

Roberto

I remember an idea: to treat every interaction or everything I share as a metaphorical lottery ticket. You never know, not in the sense of, oh, I want to win something. But in the sense that you don't know what's going to happen, you take it, and it's an unlimited lottery ticket when you share something that you care about, of course, not just sharing for sharing. You care about these ideas, you share it, and it's again, and you keep sharing. And then maybe sometimes something happens now, in one year, or two years, and you never know. And as long as you do it from a place of authenticity and have fun, Because if you do it with ideas, you say, I have this agenda, and if this doesn't work, I don't have the goal, so it's frustrating. You have to have fun in the process. And then, when you have fun in the process and trust the longer term, I think things always happen.

And the proof is what you did in just two years. You look back, and then I did so many things. Just two years.

Hannah

Yes, and I thought that when I was in my job, and you know, with these wonderful, it was a small company working with two founders, I thought that was it. Like, I felt that I needed to settle for less. And I knew that I was capable. I knew in myself that I had something to give, but I just didn't feel like I could give it in the specific context I had. Like, I didn't feel like I was being seen.

And now I feel like I'm being seen, and that motivates you to keep going because you can be doing the same work in one room and get no, and make no difference and get no recognition. Not that recognition is the main point, but you can do the same amount of work in a different room and get all these other benefits, connections, and a sense of fulfillment. It's just got to be bright with how you allocate your time so that the consequences are, are you happy with them? You're content with how you're spending that time. The years seem to go by so quickly. The two years feel like nothing, right?

Roberto

You mentioned one thing, which is feeling seen. What is for you?

Hannah

Being able to be yourself, like I am now, and being accepted is being seen for me. Also, to do something like this, I love to work like this, which I've always been quite studious about. I throw myself into my projects, and being seen for me is also the project that makes a difference to somebody. It only needs to be one person, and you deem that to be beneficial. And so otherwise, if you're working on something, the problem I find with some freelance projects is if I feel like I'm making illustrations for a client and I don't think that they might post the illustrations, I don't see the impact. Making the course, I've already seen some people in my course go ahead and create their illustrations, and that is just like, wow, the feeling of the effort I put in is just giving me so much more of a reward than working with one person and not an unknown consequence or outcome.

Roberto

So you see the impact of what you do and have it tangible.

Hannah

Tangible, not only that, but I also saw myself making the course, which sounds weird. I'm looking at myself from looking back. I was happy. People were messaging me saying, you know, you've changed Hannah. Making the course for me brought so much energy to me, and I didn't expect it. So I think the whole Ikigai situation leads to when you feel that, when you think that, you feel like you're getting energy from something. That's when you need to keep leaning in because it's so powerful.

Roberto

This brings me a question: perhaps some people are connected, and they are wondering, okay, should I start sharing, or should I not? What's the advice or suggestion that you would give them about this, and how do you approach this?

Hannah

I am interested in hearing your take on this, too. Regarding social media, I would say my advice would be to focus on one platform and relationships in one place. Don't focus on likes or shares because there are people behind the screen, and you foster those relationships, and then that's, you know, you build your audience together. You don't need to worry about doing it on your own. So if you want to get yourself out there, do, but then also go in the DMs and give without, I think it's easy to come in with an ask to for somebody; I get so many messages on Instagram from people saying, can you look at my post? Can you follow me? Can you support me? You're coming in with an ask. You've got to give first because I've only got a finite amount of time. If I, you know, you can't, you've got to, it's got to be an exchange of value there. Yeah, I suppose that would be my advice.

Just don't overthink it. My approach to putting illustrations out is different from some of your approaches. I think I only do three posts a week regarding illustration because I try to do this whole thing, and I can't do more than that. I can't do a daily illustration. That's not possible for me. And so that's a bar that I set for myself. So, setting those upper bounds for your sanity is very important, and they will differ from others. But yeah, just having your upper bound, keep posting. That's what I would advise and quality over quantity because a really, really strong visual will be the gift that keeps giving.

Roberto

I love it. Yeah, and I love how you focus on relationships, giving first, not just going there with me asking. And then, once you establish a relationship, as I said in the beginning, with no agenda, things will come up naturally. If they come up, if they don't, it's fine because you don't do it for them.

Yeah, and I also think each one should find their own pace and do it as long as it feels like a joy. It doesn't have to be like, oh no, I have to write this.

So you have this feeling something is not good. And I think it's difficult sometimes to see because maybe you have this feeling of discomfort because it's the first time we do. So you don't know the difference clearly between the discomfort of, oh, I'm doing something different today, and I'm putting myself out, or the discomfort of, oh, why do I have to do this? It doesn't feel like my thing.

So, to answer this question, perhaps my idea would be to do it as a fun activity and learn in the process. And I love an idea: I do it for myself, and accidentally, like in this conversation, we have a wonderful discussion about the thing we love. Accidentally we are broadcasting into LinkedIn, we talk to some people, and then, okay, this is great. And so it's a sub-product of something that you like. And this is also one thing that works because it keeps the love for the thing. Another thing that brings me to mind is that it's almost time; it was nearly an hour, so I must be very respectful of all the people's time.

This is also something that Janis shares in this idea: if I have to put something out, I have to be respectful. So, if I see this in another person, would I like it? Or would I think, okay, this is another one of the copy of the copy of the copy, why? So, and if it feels authentic to you, even if it's a copy, even if maybe the same idea, the exact quote that you love, I love a lot of quotes from Naval, for example, I could go all day long with quotes from Naval because I love it.

And I still have the book here. I have the book; this is the only physical book I have, the Almanack of Naval.

Hannah

Oh yeah, I've got mine over there on the shelf.

Roberto

Yeah. So that's for me the idea. And then go on, try, experiment. And as you said, 100% connect with people and reach out. This is another thing. Please don't keep it for yourself. If you like something, as you said in the DM, without any other intention, reach out to some people who write an article. I say, oh, I love your article because of this, and I would love to connect with you. That's it.

And when I receive also these kinds of messages from people, they say, Oh, I love your visual. This is, oh, this is good. Of course, I don't do it for that, but at the same time, everyone wants to be seen. As you said, I also feel seen when I say, okay, this person liked what I put out, and something clicked for them. This is good. I had an impact. And this also gives you some motivation.

Hannah

Yeah, and I think being seen is how I realized I've had all the boosts I could get from somebody liking my illustrations. I don't need any likes. If you need validation from the likes, then you will be putting yourself in a difficult situation because you don't know when that will stop. Like you, the whole thing is dangerous. What you get used to seeing the notifications pop up is just normal.

Something that stands out to me is something like my friend who lives in France. They went to see their lawyer, and he had your and my visuals on his wall. That's the impact, that's the impact that matters. It's like making a real difference because somebody thinks they're a brilliant person here and are just finding value in what we've shared.

So it's just really, you know, trusting that what you have to say, your situation, your circumstances, and your take on things are worth sharing. Yeah, yeah, that's the impact for me.

Roberto

Yeah. Again, this connects to the idea of just doing it and believing that you have something worth sharing. And it's not like you don't have to be whatever. You are yourself. When you share what you are yourself, this is unique. No one else has this perspective. So it has some value, always.

Hannah

And if you're not confident, that's how you are, so don't expect to be confident when you start. For example, if you're not confident now, fantastic, you've not done anything, but if you keep going, you'll become confident. So the same is true with my course; I was not confident initially, but you only get there by doing. And so if we sit on ourselves just waiting, procrastinating, and never doing anything. We never give ourselves a chance to see if we, you know, are good at different, different activities, whether that's making visuals or doing something else.

Roberto

Hannah, this call to action is a beautiful way to wrap up the conversation. I have one last question: If anyone wants to connect or reach out to you, what's the best way to reach you?

Hannah

I'm focusing on LinkedIn and Instagram. I'm also on Twitter, but I was going to say I've got my course; I've got a few more spots left for anybody who wants to come in as a beta tester, and that means that I'm offering a free 30-minute strategy call with me and a discounted price because I'm making an effort to get to know those first people that take my course. After all, it's just getting invested in your story and seeing how I can help and improve. I need the feedback. I can't wait to hear from you, so if you're super keen to make illustrations, I can help you out, but if not, lots of free stuff will be put on social media. I'll keep publishing.

Roberto

I'm sure there will also be fascinating and fantastic learning. Thank you. Thank you, Hannah. And I would also like to thank you again, Hannah, for finding the time. It's been super fun. I learned a lot from you. And I love to hear how the course goes.

Hannah

Thank you; it's been such a privilege. Thank you for inviting me to do this because it's one of those situations where I probably wouldn't have said I probably wouldn't have put my sign myself up for it. But when you asked me, I wouldn't say no.

Roberto

It has been so much fun. Bye-bye, everyone.